Niranjan Mudholkar

“The conversation is all about gender. And that is what we have to change. The conversation should be about merit, about competence, about skills, and about knowledge. And those of us who are in positions where we can effect that change, it is our duty, and it is our responsibility to make sure that that change happens!”

Introduction: In this exclusive fireside chat with Niranjan Mudholkar, Editorial Director, Pro MFG Media, under the ‘Women Aces of Manufacturing’ initiative Presented by the Aditya Birla Group, iconic industry leader Vinita Bali remarks that ‘we owe it to the women in manufacturing for creating avenues, and for utilizing their capacity, their capability as well as their competence for the growth and development of not just themselves, but also of our country’.

Did you face any gender bias when you were starting off in the late 1970s & early 1980s? How do you compare that period with the latter part of your career?

Certainly I can say that when I started working, there were very few women in the industry. When I joined Cadbury in India, I was the first ever manager who was a woman in that organization. And I am talking about 1980. So, yes, it wasn’t talked about but obviously, there were much fewer opportunities for women than there were for our male colleagues. And you could see that in the ratio of women to men in management institutes and institutes of technology, and so on. In fact, in my batch, I remember we were hardly 10 percent women, and the rest were all men in my management school. That number is now at about 25 percent. So, it has improved, but it certainly is not reflecting the mix of our population, or the mix of what would have happened if there was equality of opportunity, starting from school, and right through your secondary and tertiary education.

Do you think there is a cultural lacking with regards to pushing women towards career? Do we prepare our girl children for a career? Or do we really just prepare them for getting married at a point of time?

Yes, it’s a huge cultural issue in India. We know so many times we hear parents saying this to a girl that this is okay for your brother, but not okay for you. Why is it not okay for you? The fact is that whenever there is access to opportunities, women actually do better than their male counterparts. Whether it is academically, whether it is medicine, whether it is liberal arts, or whether it is appearing for competitive exams or anything else for that matter. Women are not being pulled down by lack of intelligence; in fact, they have plenty of that. What they are being pulled down by is the access to opportunities. And what is coming in the way of access to opportunities is the mindset of people. I wish we had more men who would have the courage to stand up for their daughters, their sisters and their wives. It is the thinking of an individual that changes what happens to societies. It is the thinking of an individual that changes the future for people; it is the thinking of one individual who can convince so many others to say equality means equality of access to every opportunity.

You have suggested that we have ‘to constructively determine how to leverage gender differences so that individuals and society benefits’. What are some of the ways of doing it?

I think I look at things somewhat differently. Let’s say if you and I were doctors. So when we walk into the hospital in our white coats, what should matter? What should matter is our academic record, our track record of work, our knowledge, our skills, our attitudes, and the personal attributes we bring to our work. Where does gender play a role in it whatsoever? And yet, we have made it the most important part of all our conversations. Today, everybody in the world is talking about gender diversity. If we just took action on the basis of all the talks that we are doing and make a start, I think we can make a huge difference. This discussion on gender has to give way to a really solid discussion on meritocracy. You and I should both be walking into that hospital, on the basis of the merit of our work, the merit of our qualifications, the merit of our track record, and not on our gender. But look at the conversations; the conversation is all about gender. And that is what we have to change. The conversation should be about merit, about competence, about skills, and about knowledge. And those of us who are in positions where we can effect that change, it is our duty, and it is our responsibility to make sure that that change happens!

Can women manufacturing professionals tackle workplace diversity issues head-on and drive organisational accountability while also focusing on their own professional growth? How?

These challenges are really not challenges. Women are actually doing all three. But they don’t get acknowledged for it. Look at all the women who are managing a house. See how well they are managing it. They are managing the supply chain, the inventory, the finances, the timings and so many things.

I also think that there is an unconscious bias, even in the kinds of questions we ask. Why are we even raising this question about the capability of women? Women have shown their capability in the hardest of circumstances. For example, in the dry regions like Rajasthan, it’s the women and not the men who walk five miles to fetch water for the family! It is the women who are taking care of the family and the children and so on. But that’s a separate matter. Look at the number of qualified women; women who have proven themselves academically to be as sound as their male counterparts, and who are not working. It is a shame that we are not recognising their talent. We are not recognising their aspirations. We are not recognising the dreams of these people. Women are human beings. It is not that there is something here and then there are women.

The first thing we have to say to ourselves is that it is not a question of their capability. We are talking about creating an environment where there is an equal access to opportunities for education, for training and for skill development. We are talking about a time when there is no bias when it comes to gender. On the basis of qualifications alone, there should be more women coming for jobs and not less, and yet, the reality is very different. All of us have to step back and question ourselves: where is the conscious bias? Where is the unconscious bias? Do we really believe in equality for all human beings? If yes then this whole concept of gender has to go away. If I am competent and if I have the necessary qualifications to be the Head of R&D or to be the Head of Manufacturing or to be the Head of Quality or to be the Head of Marketing, then my gender should become completely irrelevant and immaterial! So to answer your question, women have more than the capability. When I worked in Britannia, one of our factories in Pondicherry had 90 percent women employees. And it was the factory with the highest productivity, with the best quality indicators and with the least amount of wastage.

If this was a game of equal opportunity, of merit and of performance, the world would actually be very different. It is what it is because most of the decisions are made by men because more of them happen to be in positions of power irrespective of whether the bias is conscious or unconscious. We have to accept that there is a huge bias.

You have said that ‘true leadership is gender agnostic’. But due to certain social dynamics, we still have more men in leadership positions. So what are some of the traits that women manufacturing professionals need to develop to become good leaders?

I keep saying that it is not about women. This change in mindset has to happen with men. And why do I say that? That’s because right now, they are the ones who are making these decisions. Everybody is talking about gender diversity. But what are you doing about it? So that change in mindset has to start at the top; whatever the ratio of gender is at the top. If there is no conviction there, then there will be no actions. Then we are talking about tokenism.

I remember the time when they said that every listed company should have at least one woman on the board of its directors and one woman who’s an independent director. Since there were so many qualified women, there wasn’t an issue in terms of getting women directors. In fact, some of the more enlightened boards went ahead and hired not just one, but three or four women on their boards. I sit on boards where there are three or four of us, and it’s a fabulous board.

So we need to have very different kinds of conversations. Diversity is about the diversity of perspective. We just tend to think that diversity is about gender. I can show you a woman and a man who are more alike than two men or two women.

Therefore, the narrative has to change not just in organizations because the organizations are nothing but a microcosm of the larger system. The narrative has to change in society. The narrative has to change in communities.

You have always made ‘unconventional choices’. Has it enabled you to grow better and faster despite the challenges that it entails?

I don't know what is faster, but I think I grew reasonably fast. I was a General Manager at the age of 37. But that’s not the point. All of us have to do what temperamentally suits us. What has worked for me may or may not work for you. When I say I have made unconventional choices, they have ranged all the way from agreeing to working in Nigeria as a single woman or to being the first ever professional manager from India to work in South Africa. This was in 1993. So that worked great for me because that is my temperament. But if somebody has a different temperament, it may not work for them. So I think in addition to our functional qualifications, it is also important for each one of us to be clear about what we like doing and why we like doing that. And if we can actually follow or pursue the things that we like, then it makes it very easy for you to enjoy your work. If you enjoy what you are doing, then you excel in it. When you excel in it, there are people around you who also get that positive energy from you and the whole organization excels.

You have been hailed as a ‘transformational’ and ‘turnaround’ leader due to your work with organizations like Britannia and Cadbury. What are the key leadership lessons that today’s leaders can learn from your experiences?

I have lived and worked in very, very tough environments. For example, the level of inflation I saw in Nigeria is something that I have never seen in my entire life. Similarly, the level of inflation we dealt with in Brazil in the mid-1990s was also extremely high. Those were indeed very difficult times that would test any leadership.

I think we need to distinguish between leaders and leadership; it is a very important difference. We usually tend to call someone with a title as a leader. It could be a CEO, or a Prime Minister or a President; but that’s just a title. Just because I have that title doesn’t mean that I have effective qualities of leadership. And I am using the word effective because I don’t want to be judgmental about good or bad qualities of a leader. But that effectiveness has to come from a certain high ground of integrity and ethics. And that integrity and ethics is what leads to authenticity. The greatest leaders in my book are the ones who have displayed exceptional qualities of leadership, no matter what the situation or the circumstance. They have always operated with integrity. For example, an individual who never had any formal titles, never won any awards and yet was a great leader. His name was Gandhi. I had been driving in Chile and I suddenly stopped at a corner and I saw a statue of Gandhiji. I was driving in Atlanta and suddenly there was a statue of Gandhiji. So, it is about what you do, not what you say. It is about the authenticity that you bring to the purpose. The reason for that is widely known; it comes from a place of fairness. It comes from a place of respect for everybody. It comes from a place of equity for everybody. In that purpose, nobody is superior and nobody is inferior; we are all equal.

One thing is certain that businesses will go through a rough time; there will be uncertainty and ambiguity. Who knew before the virus that the whole world is going to shut down for two years? Who knew that Russia was going to invade Ukraine? But when unpredictable things happen, effective leadership demands that you still make decisions with integrity. You still do what is right and you operate with fairness. You take ownership for results and you carry your people along with you. Sometimes, it might take you longer to reach your destination. It’s fine. There’s nothing that says that everything has to happen in two years or three years or in a certain timeframe. But for that, our entire ecosystem has to be different. If the stock market is going to reward CEOs with huge pay packets for quarterly results, then - guess what - CEOs are going to be very short term focused. But if you say, we are not even going to talk about quarter to quarter. We are going to look at things at the end of three years and then the behaviour will shift. A transformational journey requires clarity on where you are headed. You could be an academic institution, you could be an NGO, you could be a business organisation; it doesn’t matter. It’s about asking where I am today and where I want to be! Then it is a question, very simply, of saying what do we need to get there? What do we need in terms of strategic initiatives? What do we need in terms of building capability? And both have to work in tandem because I cannot have a great strategic initiative if I don’t have the capability to do that. Take the example of digitalization that everybody is talking about today. So setting and reaching goals requires clarity. It requires a purpose which people can relate to. It requires investing in building capability and competency. It requires rewarding people on meritocracy and it requires exceptional execution skills. It requires the right kind of metrics for measuring what we have set out to do. Above all, it requires a great deal of fineness of character. It requires the leader to be always operating in a manner which is ethical and authentic!

You are a role model to so many people. Have there been people who you have considered as your role models?

I have many role models. Role models are not necessarily people who are well known. Role models are people you can learn from and they can be anybody. So yes, I have had people I have looked up to. Some come from the world of sports, some from the world of the performing arts, some from the world of NGOs and only a few come from the world of business. As a child growing up, I was so infatuated when I read the biography of Madame Curie and learnt how she won two Nobel Prizes - one with her daughter and one with her husband. I was infatuated with the biography of Maria Callas. Then, I also take as my role model someone who used to work for me and to whom you said, ‘Okay, we will have a meeting at 12’. And this individual will show up at 12 every time, all the time. I look up to people in many different areas because of their sheer devotion to what they do and because of the hard work and the grit they put into excelling in what they do. I look up to some because of their just sheer brilliance and some because they just carry people with them.

I would definitely like to understand your perspective on our initiative ‘Women ACES of Manufacturing’ that we are doing to encourage more women coming into manufacturing, building their careers in this industry and achieving leadership positions.

I actually think it is a great initiative. We typically don’t think of women in manufacturing. And yet, wherever there are women in manufacturing the results and the metrics look simply great. There are wonderful, very qualified and competent women out there who have done their degrees in engineering. And I think we owe it to the women in manufacturing - whether it is the public sector or the private sector - for creating avenues, for utilizing their capacity, their capability and their competence for the growth and development of not just themselves, but also of our country. I do hope that as a result of this wonderful initiative, more and more people will start thinking more and more often about getting women into manufacturing roles.

About Vinita Bali

Vinita Bali is a business leader with extensive experience in leading large Companies both in India and overseas. She has worked with eminent multinationals like The Coca-Cola Company and Cadbury Schweppes PLC in a variety of Marketing, General Management and CEO roles in the UK, Nigeria, South Africa, Latin America and the USA, in addition to Britannia Industries Ltd., in India. She brings a global and pragmatic perspective to strategy, marketing, innovation and operations, having worked across countries and continents, with responsibility for global and regional roles.

Effective April 2014, Vinita moved from a full time role as MD & CEO of Britannia to pursue her wide-ranging interests in the corporate and development sectors. She is a Non-Executive Director on the Global Boards of Cognizant Technology Solutions and SATS Limited. She also served on the Global Boards of Syngenta International AG from April 2012 to June 2017, Smith & Nephew plc from December 2014 till December 2020, Bunge Limited from Jan 2018 till May 2021 and GAIN (Global Alliance for Improved Nutrition), a Swiss Foundation, based in Geneva, from July 2010 to December 2018 and was the Chair from January 2015 to December 2018.

In India, Ms Bali serves as a Non-Executive Director on the Boards of CRISIL Ltd and Syngene International Limited; is a Member of the Board of Governors of the Indian Institute of Management – Bangalore and Chairs the CII National Committee on Nutrition. She was also on the Board of Titan Company Limited from October 2006 till March 2018.

Ms Bali was among 27 global leaders appointed by the UN in 2012 to help improve maternal and child health as part of its SUN (Scaling up Nutrition) initiative and completed her term in 2016. She has been recognized in forums nationally and internationally and won several awards for her various contributions to business and society.

She has an under-graduate degree in Economics from the University of Delhi and a Masters in Management from the University of Bombay. She has also pursued post graduate studies in International Business from Michigan State University.

NEWSLETTER